Curse

Wretchman Drake · Mar 22, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Although this information is true, it's debatable because most people who play Warriors are noobs and don't execute their purpose correctly. Warrior is the most noob-friendly class so that's why you don't see alot of bright people using one.

ss1986v2 · Mar 22, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

Although this information is true, it's debatable because most people who play Warriors are noobs and don't execute their purpose correctly. Warrior is the most noob-friendly class so that's why you don't see alot of bright people using one.

i agree whole heartedly about the warrior. new/bad players tend to be drawn to the warrior class ("i like to hit stuff with a hammer!"). but that has nothing at all to do with the warrior as a class. yes, a lot of people suck at playing warrior, but that in no way says anything to the strengths and weaknesses of the warrior class as a whole when compared to other classes. thats like saying a particular car sucks because the guy driving it doesnt know how to drive.

while the "people suck at warrior" theory can hold true in most of pve and ra/ta/ha, look at the top end of GvG. those people do, infact, not suck. that is where you can see the strength of the warrior class. so when you want to compare the best of other classes, make sure you are comparing them to the top of the warrior community. if not, then you are skewing the facts based on some "wammos suck" theroy. while usually true, it has nothing to do with the conversations.

the conversation is the warrior class (armor, weapons, skills, ingame tactics) as a whole, not the crappy players that play a warrior.

Ismoke · Mar 22, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I thought this was more of a spike build and swords caused pressure dmge.

I think its alittle of both, however i could be wrong! This build can spike but i think its designed to aplly pressure to everything on the opposing team., Correct me if im wrong please!

Humbly.

Issac · Mar 22, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Some ppl say warriors aren't the easiest profession to play. Warriors are the best melee class from what I know. I can do a great amount of dmg and mostly kill other players in less then 15 seconds lol. There might be many warriors but there are only a few good ones. But the amount of warriors have decreased over time but theres still alot of them left, alot more then other professions and not many of them suck.

Marverick · Mar 23, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwnd by a guineapig

HOW DARE YOU SAY WARRIORS ARE DEAD. Dervish depend to much on enchantments therefore making shatter enchantment,drain enchantment and other enchantment shattering skills there worst nightmare, dervish cant tank nearly as good, not even as good as a warrior. Assasins rely on energy and little combos to kill an enemy, I would NEVER take an assasin in a farming group/Mission because they are low damage dealers and have some sucky skills. WARRIORS WILL NEVER DIE.

Can dervish solo as many things warriors can? NO they cant.
Can Sins solo as many things as warriors can? NO they cant.

Eh? Sins can solo just about every single area in the game with a few exceptions.... and warrior soloing is extremely slow and excruciating, and so unlucrative that I wouldn't even call it farming...

A good Moebius --> DB Sin will outdamage your warrior anyday on a single target, in addition to providing AoE damage and an spike with Impale if necessary. An SS Necro deals pretty much unrivaled DPS since mobs are stupid and keep attacking through SS + RH. Warriors are just useless in PvE because mobs are stupid and warriors aren't for handling stupid things. Tanks are just as useless except in DoA, where D/E Obsidian Tank > W/E anyday.

But warriors are in no way useless in PvP because people aren't stupid (hopefully ^_^). That sin will get a Distracting Shot shoved up his arse on Moebius Strike and sit around auto attacking for pathetic damage, while a warrior still deals respectable damage even on auto attacks. That SS Necro will get his hexes removed and sit around looking funny in a hat.

XvArchonvX · Mar 23, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Personally, I think that Dervish beat Warriors in PvE hands down if both classes are used to their highest potential. In PvP, they are both very effective, although it might be arguable that warriors are a bit better since the avatar nerfs. In terms of farming, I think a 130 hp dervish build shows up just about every warrior build there is. Even in some places where enchantmentless farming is needed (such as FoW spider cave farming)a dervish can do the same job as a warrior if not better ([wiki]D/Me Dervish Solo FoW Farmer[/wiki], but sub Reaper's Sweep for AoB).

Master Halbarad · Mar 23, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

If warriors are dead why do I see them all over the place? It's just a matter of ajusting to how anet thinks they should be used now that there are aggro rules the ai follows like takin out the monks first, which is really only making the game harder for warriors and making warriors that much more neccesary because they can get on the guy killing the monk and hack him down. My main character is a Ranger Nuker in many of his builds and he does lots more damage than most of the tanks ive played with. This is because they go defense completely most of the time when it should be a mix or total offense now like I said with the new aggro rules.

Vermilion · Mar 23, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

you guys are arguing the wrong way. here's a better look at the warrior and other physical damage dealers:

like all characters, it is very possible to make something that can totally screw a warrior up. however, this game is not a big rock-paper-scissors match. what you should all know is that the capabilities of the dervish and assassins are very limited compared to the warrior.

basically, the assassin can be thought as the "spiker for idiots" and the dervish as the "pressure for idiots". both are essentially point and shoot classes: there's really no special skills needed. the assassin can execute a fairly decent (but not terrific) spike by jamming 6 buttons every 20 seconds or so. the dervish can pressure fairly decently (but not terrifically) by running up to a target and jamming a few buttons repeatedly. however, both classes have maximum potentials lower than that of a warrior. the assassin is a 1 trick pony and becomes useless if their combo fails to score a kill. the dervish can throw out some hefty damage, but have zero disruption. like the assassin, if their attacks fail to kill, they are useless.

the warrior, on the other hand, has the potential to pressure, spike, and disrupt all at once. a well played warrior is simply the most dangerous character on the battlefield because he can screw you over in so many different ways. they are threatening all the time, and can be utterly unpredictable in their playing style because they are capable of so much more.

in closing, the warrior is still better than any other melee class. it's just that the other classes are easier to play.

QFT. I was gonna write a long post, but this sums it up very nicely. What makes the warrior so sexy? flexibility. Personally I enjoy all the melee classes for their individual strengths, but warrior is just good times.

tomcruisejr · Mar 23, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Yes because Tiger's Fury is now 25%.

Darkpower Alchemist · Mar 23, 2007, 04:29 AM // 04:29

In the thought of "what is the superior melee class?", I will still tend to go with warrior, for the fact that the warrior has melee counters that can't be bypassed or circumvented.

[skill=card]Riposte[/skill] and [skill=card]Deadly Riposte[/skill]

These 2 "skills" can't be dodged, removed, or avoided, so melee vs melee, the warrior is the one with the definite advantage. Let's not even get into the stances...

As for melee versatility against other classes, that is debatable, but still the warrior has a distinct advantage due to various flexiblities as mentioned in a previous post.

[skill=card]Distracting Blow[/skill],[skill=card]Savage Slash[/skill],[skill=card]Disrupting Chop[/skill],and [skill=card]Wild blow[/skill] to name a few of the attack variants that can be used to stop casters and melee opponents alike, all in the warrior line.

In short and closing, the warrior class is far from dead, but does take more skill than most would assume to be overall effective.

Also,Halbarad, what the hell is a ranger nuker? lol, that sounds like you need some ranger advice...but that's for another place and time.

knives · Mar 23, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Correct me if I am wrong but...couldn't a Dervish or Assassin put wild blow and /or distracting blow on their skill bar and it would be the same thing as a warrior with them? That being said, then dervishes can interrupt and they have 4 pips along with the assassin. And again if the other melee classes just slap on a warrior secondary, then they will still have access to all those skills and use them effectively. There are only a handful of skills in the str line of a warrior that are useful, and there are far better skills in say the mysticism line of a dervish or the critical line of the assassin.

The warrior is far from dead, and their tanking abilities in any situation are still useful (unlike dervishes vs enchant removal), but things like high spike dmg and/or big huge numbers, something a numerous amount of people like to see, overshadows the appeal of the warrior class.

Zamochit · Mar 23, 2007, 08:49 AM // 08:49

I feel that the warrior is the most flexible of melee classes, with the ability to change targets without penalty, unlike an assasin which needs to complete a series of attacks in turn usually once it has chosen a target, or a dervish which gains specific bonuses for maintaining attacks on the same target. A strong base of both adrenal and energy attacks and the ability to inflict an immediate deep wound, without necessarily utilising the elite slot, make the warrior an unpredictable spiker, keeping opposing healers on their toes.

Missing one attack does not shut a warrior down for 20 seconds whereas a monk with hexbreaker can turn a BoA sin into a pussycat until shadow prison recharges...the same can not be said of most warrior builds.

Effendi Westland · Mar 23, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorath Of Krosa

Is it just me or are warriors becoming useless now (as far as PvE goes)

You all missed the OP asking about pve?

ss1986v2 · Mar 23, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

You all missed the OP asking about pve?

that question is very easy and has been answered very early:

PvE = DPS
Warriors = DPS
PvE = Warriors
Warriors =/= Tanks

the conversation then moved on from there...

Wretchman Drake · Mar 23, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

These statements are so stupid... Warriors cannot pressure as much as a BoA sin, they've been nerfed countless times, a Tiger's Fury Warrior was good back in the day, not to mention it was in the IWAY build, Undressed... You fail at forums, btw. You really do. Also, Warriors don't have as good DPS as a Dervish. Don't even bother saying Derv have enchantment hassle because that's the dumbest thing I've heard, welcome to real life, who the hell strips them? Who E-Denies Sins? You all need to quit thinking other ppl on this forum think they know everything and start researching. So many ppl on guru don't know half the crap they speak of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwnd by a guineapig

HOW DARE YOU SAY WARRIORS ARE DEAD. Dervish depend to much on enchantments therefore making shatter enchantment,drain enchantment and other enchantment shattering skills there worst nightmare, dervish cant tank nearly as good, not even as good as a warrior. Assasins rely on energy and little combos to kill an enemy, I would NEVER take an assasin in a farming group/Mission because they are low damage dealers and have some sucky skills. WARRIORS WILL NEVER DIE.

Can dervish solo as many things warriors can? NO they cant.
Can Sins solo as many things as warriors can? NO they cant.

THis just proves the intelligence around here...

Solo Sins farm tons of Bosses.
Dervs can also solo.

FFS. Dervs make the Drock Run too not to mention, Warrior's can do Ascaon Alley and not much else. By that meaning alot of Tyria but not Drocks since every other area are low level.

Kiasyd117 · Mar 23, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Wow, for such a long thread it pains me to see so few posts that have any sense to them. ANet ruined the warrior class with constant updating, mechanics changes, and skill nerfing. Check the update list on gw.com to see how warriors have gotten the nerf stick again and again. Their DPS cannot compare to Dervishes or Assassins in either spike damage or pressure. The statement that a warrior can apply more pressure than 4x BoA Sins is absurd, in the rank of things I fear in combat a warrior rarely places in the top 10. In fact usually when I see a warrior in a PVP environment I regard them as free XP and not as any kind of threat at all. As for PVE applications for the warrior class the usefullness of warriors is waining there as well, their dominance as the universal solo build and running build has been surpassed by the Dervish, and in general combat the Paragon ends up being a better choice especially in long drawn out missions with multiple conditional win requirements.

wascal · Mar 23, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

So umm, the fact Anet has consistantly nerfed warrior skills since july of last year (check the guildwars skill updates list)while increasing the damage and reducing the cost and cooldown of Rit/Derv/Sin skills isnt having a massive effect on the way warriors are used in PvP AND why warriors have become 2nd choice classes when given a choice of sin or derv.
Ive been playing my warrior since day one, got 13mill xp, and ive learned a thing or two about playing a warrior intelligently, and to be honest ive come to the conclusion that the warrior has been nerfed in an attempt to sell the factions expansion to the masses by offering a more powerful alternative to the warrior, who wants to play a crappy warrior when you can play a sin?

Anet had consistantly increased the defensive aspects of the warrior while simultaneously lowering its offensive capability, who needs a warrior with high def if he hits like a girl?

Wretchman Drake · Mar 23, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

OMG finally some people who know what they're talking about!

ss1986v2 · Mar 23, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

These statements are so stupid... Warriors cannot pressure as much as a BoA sin, they've been nerfed countless times, a Tiger's Fury Warrior was good back in the day, not to mention it was in the IWAY build,, and warriors don't have as good DPS as a Dervish. Don't even bother saying Derv have enchantment hassle because that's the dumbest thing I've heard, welcome to real life, who the hell strips them? Who E-Denies Sins? You all need to quit thinking other ppl on this forum think they know everything and start researching. So many ppl on guru don't know half the crap they speak of.

yes, a BoA sins puts out an insane amount of dmg: no one is contesting that. but its strongest in a spike, not in pressure. over the coarse of 5 secs, a BoA puts out more dmg than a warrior could ever dream of putting out in that same 5 secs. thats a given. but what about the next 15 seconds? over that next 15 seconds, the assassins dmg potential is slim in comparison to the warriors over that 15 seconds. and thats the point people are making. not that the assassin sucks. it rocks you socks. but that over a longer period of time, the warriors DPS comes out looking good.

and yes with 16 weapon spec and a 33% IAS, a derv puts out a higher DPS that a warrior. again, thats a given. the reason is the high crits involved with the scythe. just look at the warriors weapons: hammer puts out a higher theoretical DPS than an axe, and an axe puts out more than a sword. but this DPS difference is rather small, about 2-4 damage per second IIRC. its not like the derv blows the warrior out of the water. its just a supped up hammer warrior. yes the derv rocks, and works great, but the use comes down to a matter of preference.

in RA/AB/TA, i give you that a derv is much better than a warrior. you can focus your build much better in these smaller scale battles, and bring plenty of self survival without sacrificing your dmg output. the biggest trade off between the warrior and the dervish is the inherent dmg absorption of the warrior, which is negated by the dervs survivability skills. as for enchant hate, i agree with you. in these places, enchant hate is almost non existent. but in the higher end, you coordinate the enchantment removal you have. if you know a person is using a valuable enchant, you can sit on it (like eles and their attunes). i dont think that it really is an issue for the derv, but to say it doesnt exist is something different altogether. you say "who actually removes them?". i do. if i see a derv relying on MR to stay alive, you can bet your bottom dollar my goal is the keep it off him as much as possible.

and i dont know why you keep bring up IWAY and TF. a evis/exe warrior puts out the same dmg when he uses any 33% IAS; whether it be frenzy, flail, or the old, pre-nerf TF. TF didnt create more dmg, it just made the dmg already available to the warrior more convenient. the TF nerf did nothing to the potential DPS of a warrior. so stop bring up IWAY. and that was never a good build to begin with. it was simply used to farm fame in the lower levels of halls, because the DPS of the warrior was naturally very high, and IWAY just made it easy to maximize (33% IAS, lots of health regen, naturally high DPS).

i know the warrior has taken a few hits in updates, but show me the ones that have crippled their DPS potential? thats all i ask.

*EDIT*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

Don't even talk about HA please, because if you think HA/GvG are the only important forms of PvP, get a grip. Some guilds do hardcore TA and win 30 in a row, others cap AB, etc; everyone has their own taste in PvP, just because something works in a larger scale battle doesn't mean it will in a smaller, more compressed one.

this was from a while back, but really wanted to comment. on this statement, i agree 110% with you. every different aspect of the game is an entirely different monster. what works in one place can fail miserably in another, and not enough people realize that. just understand the majority of posters and player regard this game as GvG with some other stuff on the side (not my opinion, but pointing it out). if it cant hold up in higher end GvG, many will dismiss it outright.

Wretchman Drake · Mar 23, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

BoA sins use Expose Defences while Shadow Prison is down, then by the time the 2nd chain is down, Shadow Prison is back. No need to argue that. BoA sin more dmg than the Warrior period.

It doesn't matter if their DPS isn't severly damaged, they cannot kill as fast as other builds. End of Discussion.